Curse

broodijzer · Dec 05, 2006, 06:26 PM // 18:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

Missions are there to be made. If you don't like them... go find another game or go to PvP.

All quess and missions made! With all characters! No other way!

and what if you don't like those missions, but love the end-game areas? Being able to skip them saves a huge load of time, and this game is for the casual people without much time, right?

MithranArkanere · Dec 05, 2006, 06:37 PM // 18:37

Missions are there to be made, If they make them too hard, they'll ave to ease them sooner or later so casual people can make them.

But all of them must be made.

Tarkin · Dec 05, 2006, 07:49 PM // 19:49

In prophecies i play inch by inch with my elem, every quest every mission, enjoy the game a lot, play with my ranger every mission and enjoy the game, play with my warrior, and run run like a crazy, just cap and get every skill quest to complet all skills and run to finish the game... finish the game by third time is boring...
Well i buy factions, play with my rit inch by inch make all quests and all missions and enjoy the game, play with my sin and enjoy the game. But now i have to get my Tyria playes to cantha... holy cow you kown what is making the same thing 3 more times? i rush man i rush... just stop to cap skills you kown...
By this time i buy 3 more slots and make my necro, my mesmer and my monk... well i rush like crazy to complet them... just stop to make caps...
Now i buy nightfall and again play with my para and enjoy the game, make every quest, mission... , play with my dervish and hate the game, because dervish is a @#$#@%$#%$&^%&%&%#&^%#@#$^&*& in pve (and dont say i dont kown how to play with the dervish in pve to me), now i have 8 other players to complet the game, because to complet them you all that finish the game kown them will be only complet by finishing the game

...
I can run in Elona but not as Tyria or cantha, and is boring man very boring making all again 10 times

...
Just because i want all skills open in pve...
Well what i can say is...
Playing the game by the 2 first times is allways fun, you make every quest every mission, but by the 3... 4... 5... 10... like me is a pain in the ***
Runs FTW ever!!!!!

slimreb · Dec 05, 2006, 09:38 PM // 21:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

Missions are there to be made, If they make them too hard, they'll ave to ease them sooner or later so casual people can make them.

But all of them must be made.

That is your opinion on the matter and you have that right.

I for one do not agree with that at all. To you it might be fun to do every mission multiple times with your different toons. I for one do not find it that fun. I will do every mission with like 4 or 5 of my toons and after that I like to rush them through if at all possible. Factions was extremely annoying since you had to do every mission.

I have 13 toons that I use and really do not want to do every freaking mission in order to get to the end game content.

Each person has their own opinion on what is fun and what is not. There is no need to try and force you opinion on others. I wish that ANet had not listened to the people who want to force their ways of playing a game onto others.

ValaOfTheFens · Dec 05, 2006, 10:11 PM // 22:11

I love running around Tyria finding places. The Jungle missions seem to elude me for some reason. I just beat The Wild yesterday and I'd already bypassed it and went to the Crystal Desert. Some missions are just harder at certain times. I was stuck at Vizunah Square for 2 months because PUG's were ineffective, I wasn't in a guild at the time, and my skills and armor suxxored. I got lucky when the local group was full of experienced people doing masters. *lol* In Elona there isn't as much of a sense of claustrophobia as there is in Cantha. I still haven't explored half the land surround all the places I have. I wish I was strong enough to do Drok's. Elona Reach's mobs overwhelm me at bad times and Thirsty River's bosses seem to focus on killing Dunkuro and Alesia.

ValaOfTheFens · Dec 05, 2006, 10:12 PM // 22:12

ooppps...double post.

Saphatorael · Dec 05, 2006, 11:03 PM // 23:03

In Prophecies, the latter areas (Ring of Fire) had one prerequisite: finish Thunderhead Keep; everything else was reachable without doing a mission.

In Factions, running was 'killed', you had to finish more-or-less all missions to get all areas.

In Nightfall, the latter areas (starting from the Desolation) aren't reachable either, like in Prophecies... but to actually do a mission now, you need to have done all prerequisite quests.
So in NF, you can reach about 70% of PvE without doing missions. The rest requires the effort to do the missions (and farm that damn sunspear title :-/)

I prefer Prophecies' way. First timers will likely not take a runner, and I'm getting frustrated to farm that sunspear title by killing beetles over and over again.

Same for the tutorial areas.
In Proph, you could leave Pre-Searing as soon as you had gotten a secondary profession.

In Factions and Nightfall, you need to complete the entire primary quest line in order to get to the mainland.
Of course, the mainland is for higher-level play, but still, it's quite annoying.

My dervish is already 3 weeks old, and I've only just reached Blacktide Den. My first character with who i completed PvE was an Elonian ele, and I've already lost my motivation to do the 'starter' quests again, on my Dervish this time.

Maria The Princess · Dec 05, 2006, 11:07 PM // 23:07

Quote:

Missions are there to be made. If you don't like them... go find another game or go to PvP.

ya but being forced to do a mision/quest that you absolutly hate makes the game a boring chore. this is the reason i spend more time in GH then in Elona. and this is the reason why i tough 10000 times before starting a rit (geez... play through cantha again!!!!!?) now im ok with HAVING to do 5 out of 25 missions, but HAVING to do every single mission?

KamikazeChicken · Dec 05, 2006, 11:12 PM // 23:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mad King Corn

Another thing anet should do is once a skill is unlocked on your account, make those skills available for your other characters. Why buy all skills over again?

Why would they remove one of their few working gold sinks?

birdfoot · Dec 06, 2006, 12:42 AM // 00:42

Quote:

GS: I often think that addiction is different to enjoyment. There are games that are deeply compulsive, but when you look at your emotional reactions… well, they're relatively flat. A lot of MMOGs, perhaps even most, seem to fall into that category.

JS: You'll often hear us say that Guild Wars is a game without the grind. However, if you want to spend 100 hours trying to get a specific upgrade for an item, like a dragon-tooth hilt and a wyvern skill scabbard for your sword, that's fine. You have a specific goal in mind, and you want that item. What's not fine is “at level 20 I can access this dungeon, and at level 30 I can access that dungeon and there's a 1000 hours between them”. Obviously, the goals are shorter than that, or you just wouldn't do it… but we very much differentiate types of time sinks. And that differentiation is if it's for fun, or whether it's to arbitrarily take and stretch the 70 hours of content you have for game and stretch it over a thousand hours. Is it for fun or is it to try and get people addicted, so that you can collect another month of subscription fees?

You have to be able to make a judgement call. You look at the activities players are doing, and divide them into “People do that because it's fun” and “People do that because they have to”. Let's keep the stuff that's fun.

I just came by this interview with Jeff Strain at Gamasutra during 2005. I'm starting to suspect that ANet's game objectives are going a different route than it was set out to be (hence, the differences between Prophecies and the later chapters' game design).

Original Link: http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20...illen_01.shtml

samifly · Dec 06, 2006, 06:44 AM // 06:44

some people already know how to play on their selected professions, and all they want to do is play with guildies or get skills. Is that so bad? I am all for skipping tedious quests and every mission being required. I got along fine with only a couple being required in prophecies.

Deleet · Dec 06, 2006, 07:14 AM // 07:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by quickmonty

One of the problems with Prophecies was all the people stuck at Thunderhead Keep. I suspect that these were the people who got ran thru the game and never learned how to actually play the game. "But I already completed the game with one character." Yes, you learned how to play one profession. You roll a different profession and there is a new skill set to learn. And, playing a profession as a secondary is NOT the same as playing a primary profession. Playing = learning. Running through the game is like cheating in school. You may get to the end, but you are still uneducated.

JMO

What a stupid grind argument. It may be true in some cases, but these people who are stuck at THK, is it, because they are totally crap, not because they got ran.

I find it completely waste of time to play through prophecies again, and you're wrong. Playing with a new primary might as well be the same as the old primary.

There are roughly two character types, melee and caster/ranged. Imo.

Silent Coyote · Dec 06, 2006, 04:31 PM // 16:31

Have to agree I preferred Prophecies way of doing things, Nightfall was a major improvement over Factions in that regard but prophecies is still best.

The reason I started to play Guild Wars in the first place was because of the open ended-ness of Prophecies. I remember playing it round a friend’s house a couple of days after release, and loved the fact you could just walk past missions doing quest, get some skills/ better armour and go back and do the mission later when you felt like it. Had Prophecies been like Factions or Nightfall I would not still be here playing the game 18 months later, I wouldn't have even still been playing when Factions came out.

I still play Prophecies the most, I completed Factions twice and have absolutely no interest in going through that again, I have yet to complete Nightfall (made the mistake of going dervish - stuck at second to last mission because there is to many of em to find a group, and it’s boring doing the same missions I have already done with a different char jus so I can get in a group and finish the game).

I'm all for the idea of having to complete a chapter once fully with one char and then unlocking outpost etc for all other chars on the account, in fact I'm pretty sure I suggested that a few times just after the release of Factions and before Nightfall was released.

Chieftain Heavyhand · Dec 06, 2006, 05:31 PM // 17:31

I think the running hate comes from envy. Why should that guy get to this area before me when he/she is at lvl 6. Boo Freaking hoo

What I love the most about Prophecies is that I can explore with out having to do missions or quest. If I wanted to I could travel almost 75% of Tyra with out doing the first mission or quest. That is real freedom, that is real PVE, that is more RPG than having to perform task to get from point a to b. The inability to freely travel was one of the major down falls of Factions.

What the anti runners are really saying is that they lack the curiosity to be given a game where you are not pointed in a direction or provided a path to the end game. In Prophecies one could literally bumble around the map for months before figuring out which direction to head in to finish the game. While in Factions you we lead by the hand through the game which is why it took some only a few days to complete it. There was no room left for exploration. You were put on a path to complete the game and given no other course to take other than that path. In Nightfall it is pretty much the same as Factions with just a little freedom to allow you to choose.

As far as all three go Prophecies is the best because you are allowed to figure things out for your self instead of being force feed.

As far as running is concerned what is it to you if someone is willing to pay to be taken somewhere? If you don’t want to put up with a lvl 6 at THK then don’t take them along to do a mission. Running is yet another endgame profession that has been taken away. If people just want to mindlessly play video games there is always Nintendo, Play station, and X-box so enjoy. As for computer games the more freedom the better.

MrTwisted · Dec 07, 2006, 01:48 AM // 01:48

There is no reason at all top block/stop running.
You should be allowed to roam/visit places without doing missions if you wish. ok there are a few that are need such as sanctum cay to progress into new ares, but for the best part ppl should be allowed to go where they please.

I think its fair to say that most ppl will play there first char along the story and do the missions (bit pointless buying game other wise - unless you PvP in which case missions dont apply anyhow) after that most ppl may do another char but a lot of ppl will want to skip some parts at some point, even if they intend to come back later.

Myself I dont like to see lvl 5-6 players in thunderhead ect but hay so what if they are there it dont effect me in any way. I or anyone I know for that matter wouldnt include them in a group so whats the problem??

The fact is was and remains that running dosnt hurt anyone at all.. it just gives ppl who want to moan something to moan about..

One of the best bits of chapter 1 was the openness of of it all, I loved the fact you could farm, run ppl, and do what the hell you liked. I bought factions on the strenghts of chapter 1 and was unfortunately disapointed when I couldnt go around/past some points, its a little better in NF but I am worried where it is all leading.... are we all to be forced to play the same way at the same pace at somepoint in the future??... and loose the freedom we love..

ppl get run places because they can its their freedom of choice much like the ppl that have worked their way there dont have to include them in groups if they dont want to.

Lets not take anymore freedom away from the game.

On the whole changing past chapters thing...
I sometimes think its unfair to go back and change things that effect gameplay so much when ppl pay good money for something it should stay the way it was when they payed for it, unless ANet are prepaired to pay back the cash (and Im not taking about the much needed removing of bugs ect.. b4 ppl jump in).

Id be a bit miffed if I bought say a nice shinny red car and at some point after they took my money someone turned it into a green rust bucket and took the wheels ect...
New "improvments to game play" should be kept for new chapters so that plp that like the game for what it is can continue to enjoy it.

Nobody forces runners to run or forces ppl to include those that have been run in groups. Its all down to choice with no harm done.

quickmonty · Dec 07, 2006, 01:57 AM // 01:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deleet

What a stupid grind argument. It may be true in some cases, but these people who are stuck at THK, is it, because they are totally crap, not because they got ran.

I find it completely waste of time to play through prophecies again, and you're wrong. Playing with a new primary might as well be the same as the old primary.

There are roughly two character types, melee and caster/ranged. Imo.

Saying an argument is "stupid" (wasn't even really an argument, just an opinion) and telling people that their opinion is "wrong" are great ways to make a point. It is also flame baiting, but I'll pass.

eudas · Dec 07, 2006, 03:04 AM // 03:04

the nice thing about the design of nightfall is that it totally allows running. want to run yourself up somewhere? go right ahead -- there's very few popup patrols (and what is there is easily avoided), there's none of the spike trap/degen crap you saw in factions, no locked gates... but it won't do you any good until you actually play through the primary quests and missions.

So, it's the best of both worlds, IMO.

eudas